Tell Me I’m Here: SZ Memoir Becomes a Heart-Rending Play (ep. 54)

In 2022, the memoir Tell Me I’m Here, went from page to stage at the Belvoir Theatre in Sydney, Australia - to universal acclaim - like “a bold work, tackling difficult subject matter with empathy and insight”- and we have the playwright here with us today, with her own story to tell. 

We are also thrilled that the theatre company used our podcast as part of their research. 

Please welcome, from the UK, Veronica Nadine Gleeson 

We ask:

• What drew you to this project? Any personal connection with schizophrenia or other serious mental illness?
• Tell us about the process of adapting the work to stage - and when did you begin the play?
• Where else did you turn for research?
• What did yo learn that affected you deeply?
• Has it been produced elsewhere?
• Can we bring it to the US?
• What’s ahead for you?

Links:

https://belvoir.com.au 

Belvoir Theatre on You Tube:

https://www.youtube.com/user/Companybbelvoir 

Veronica Nadine Gleeson representation:

https://shanahan.com.au/client/veronica-gleeson/ 

Tell Me I’m Here:

https://www.amazon.com/Tell-Me-Here-ANNE-DEVESON/dp/0140098461

Mindy and her book: https://mindygreiling.com/

Randye and her book: https://benbehindhisvoices.com/

Miriam and her book: https://www.miriam-feldman.com/

Hosts:

Who:

Randye Kaye - was a morning Radio Personality bringing humor to CT families when her own son was diagnosed with schizophrenia. Now she is still a Broadcaster, Actress, Voice Talent, Speaker, and Author (“Ben Behind his Voices”)

Miriam Feldman -  is an artist, writer, and the mother of an adult son with schizophrenia. Her book, "He Came in With It" chronicles her family's story and was released to rave reviews on July 21st, 2020.

Mindy Greiling - Mindy Greiling was a member of the Minnesota House of Representatives for twenty years. She helped found the nation's first state mental health caucus, which successfully lobbied for a significant increase in Minnesota's mental health funding Her acclaimed memoir is “Fix What You Can.” 

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

SPEAKER_00 0:00

It is a story about mental illness. It's a story about a family in crisis, but also underneath that it's a story about love. And a mother's love for her son and a son's love for his mother. And how that drives them through this incredible, dark, harrowing period of their lives.

SPEAKER_06 0:20

That is actor Tom Conroy who plays the role of Jonathan, a young man with schizophrenia, in the new play Tell Me I'm Here, which was produced at the Belvoir Theatre in Sydney, Australia. Based on Anne Devison's acclaimed memoir from 1991, telling the story, according to the book blurb, of a quote, mother facing the realization that her child is going mad. And we have the playwright as our guest today. Welcome to our podcast, Schizophrenia. Three moms in the trenches. From the place where schizophrenia and real life collide. East Coast, West Coast, Middle America. With Miriam Feltman, Mindy Gryling, and Randy Kaye. If you're just joining us, we are three moms of sons who have schizophrenia. We each wrote a book about our life-changing family experience. And we're so excited today to bring in a playwright who has brought another memoir to life. And we're going to hear all about it. Back in 1991, Ann Devison wrote a memoir to great acclaim. And it has gone from page to stage. And in a moment, we're going to bring in our very special guest who is joining us from England to represent the play that was produced in Australia. So we're now an international movement of families doing our best. And we're going to bring in Veronica Nadine Gleason in just a moment. But first, uh I want to give Mindy a chance to talk. You just came back from a conference. I saw you all over Facebook. So tell me, tell us, tell us what happened. Who'd you meet?

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Well, I want to say greetings and huge compliments to all of you that the two of you that work on this podcast with me. I got so many hugs and congratulations and gratitude from people who were at the Treatment Advocacy Center, AOT assisted outpatient treatment conference in Warm San Antonio, Texas. So, and eight of them were actually previous guests on this program. So I wrote down so I wouldn't forget any of them. So you guys can know which guests we had, and our listeners can know who was there. So who's there? Lisa Daly and Sabah Muhammad from the Treatment Advocacy Center. Dr. Javier Amador was the keynote speaker, so he was one of our guests. And then Eric Smith, an early guest, was a featured speaker. And others were Leslie Carpenter, Lynn Nanos, Jerry Clark, who I know is Mimi's friend, and Rachel Streif. They were all at the conference, which was all about how to weave assisted outpatient treatment for those who are the sickest who need it into the whole mental health system. And then as soon as that was over, I rushed off 30 miles away from San Antonio for my first in-person meeting of a national board that I'm on, Schizophrenia and Psychosis Action Alliance. And there I got to meet one of our another one of our former guests, Dr. Rob Lateman. And then Dr. Amador and Rachel Streif were at that one also. So surrounded by love and learning and greetings here to everybody. I wish we'd all been there. People would have practically fainted, probably.

SPEAKER_06 3:53

Wow, that is so awesome. So I guess people are knowing about our podcast, and you got a little love and you got to meet the guests and give them a hug.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

Yeah, Dr. Amador even said, never mind about who came up to meet. People came up to him about our podcast because he had been on it and they were listeners. And so it was just a lot of synergy. And I also got to meet uh Nina Reichmann, who's from NAMI, and she was there, which so I'm glad to see some partnership now with NAMI and the Treatment Advocacy Center, which hasn't always been there. So that was an up or two.

SPEAKER_06 4:29

That's true. Thank you so much for that update. You know, I was checking out the state conference here in Connecticut and an educational conference, I believe it's virtual. There was not one class that involved serious mental illness. It was all not that that's not important, but it was kind of all anxiety. And um I I would have thought there might have been at least one learning experience that I could have gone to to deal with serious mental illness, but we'll have a talk. I know the people there.

SPEAKER_03 4:58

So I know you will.

SPEAKER_06 5:02

We'll have a talk. So welcome. If you're just joining us, um, Mindy's book is called Fix What You Can. And she's from Middle America. It's a lawmaker's view and the story of her son Jim and their family's experience. Mimi is from the West Coast. Um, beautiful book. Her book is He Came In With It. And my book is a decade old, but an updated version just came out, an audiobook called Ben Behind His Voices. And in 1991, Ann Devison wrote a book called Tell Me I'm Here. I finally got my copy. I ordered it six weeks ago. It came yesterday after I got my refund. I haven't read it. I can't wait to read it. But this went from page to stage at the Belvoir Theatre in Australia to such acclaim. The reviews just warmed my heart. One of them said, like a bold work tackling difficult subject matter with empathy and insight. The author, I believe, is no longer with us, but she wrote this memoir, uh, struggle of schizophrenia in the family, many years ago. And I'm so thrilled to see it brought to the stage to share what we all go through to a different kind of audience. We're also thrilled that the theater company used our podcast as part of their research. And so I got a hold of the playwright, and she's going to join us today. And I'm so happy to meet you, Veronica. Go ahead and sign in, please. As they there she is. So welcome all the way from the UK, Veronica Nadine Gleason, a playwright who wrote Tell Me, I'm Here. I just I'll start with the first question. I just want to know what drew you to this particular project. Like, do you have any personal connection with schizophrenia or anything similar?

SPEAKER_02 6:58

Uh, I do. Uh I do. And that's a kind of a long story. Um, the book itself, uh, I read 21 years ago. Um and uh uh at a time when I was I was about 26 years old. I just had my first child. Uh I was incredibly sad because my father had died you know months before my daughter was born. Uh, and I spent a lot of time walking around and around the suburb that we lived in. And I kept walking past this one particular house with this extraordinary orange door. Um, it was painted this like glossy, gorgeous, optimistic shade of orange, and and I couldn't get over it, and it helped me every day with my kind of, you know, uh my feelings. And eventually I said to Ruth, who was a friend of mine who lived close by, um, uh, who lives behind the house, you know, who lives behind the orange door? She said, Oh, that's Anne. Uh, and uh and and told me who Anne Devison was. And I very quickly found her book and read it. And it is, as you said, an extraordinary book written to great acclaim about the the life um and the death at the age of 24 of her son Jonathan. And I just it's it's a devastating, extraordinary, humane, funny, incredible read. Uh, but the thing that and I I could kind of put it down and I, you know, I was deeply moved by it, but also I just thought who could live through that and then go on to live and paint their door this optimistic color. Like what hurt, you know, and and and uh and I remained fascinated by Anne and um enraptured by the book for many, many, many, many years. Um did you get to know her or just her door? I just got to know her door. I never knew Anne. We moved away from there. Um, I never met her, sadly, um, and and died a few years ago. Um and I think that the worry that I had at that point that the book would maybe be forgotten or her story would be forgotten or her legacy would sort of fade, became more intense. Um I was working on a TV show about anxiety and depression with teenagers, and I just felt it was a little toothless and dishonest, and I was complaining to the agent about the book and she and I said, Look, it's it's okay, it's fine, but it's no tell me I'm here, and she just said, Veronica, you have been talking about this book for for 21 years. Can you please do something about it? And so I did. I approached her estate, which is now run by her granddaughter, um, and uh and asked if I would be able to to adapt it for the stage because I've always felt it would be an extraordinary story to share with people in in the now. Um, you know, uh yeah, with so and then they said yes, and and amazingly it's actually been quite a short journey from the adapt that from there to to where we are now with the show having just premiered in in Australia. So that's a long one.

SPEAKER_06 10:02

No, but but I I just keep thinking, why what a great title for something behind the orange door. Um it's kind of like we all live behind this. I mean, each of us, I mean, Mimi is a successful artist, and Mindy is a successful legislator, and I am the multi-potentialite actor, voiceover talent. You know, I do a bunch of different things. And my latest book of Happier Made Simple is because people kept saying, God, how did you live through that? How are you living through that? And how do you stay so positive? So that's my orange door. Like the words I tell myself about what life has brought me so far. I think we all have our, we've all talked about this in previous episodes, our way of coping. And that's my new metaphor for the week is that's my orange door. I love that. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 10:52

And you have no idea how many people are walking past that door and being inspired to live a day another day themselves because of um of the of the color you're painting. So um congratulations to you all. And may I just say, obviously, it's a deep honor to be talking to all of you. And we were all huge fans of your work as we're developing ours.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

So that was such a thrill when Randy told us that you used our podcast for background. And I look forward to you and Randy talking theater and adaptation and talking your language, which I'm just going to peer in on. But I just want to say that um I did have a chance to read Anne's book, and it really struck me how much hasn't changed, you know, in the time 1991 when her book came out, and 2020, when Mimi's and my books came out. You know, we still talked about the frustration of psychiatrists and other mental health people not talking and to and including the family having to be dangerous to self or others, or you know, really, really, really sick before anyone would help or intervene or pay any attention to what is going on. So you mentioned, I didn't quite catch all of it about your own personal experience and you know what drew you in, Randy's first question. How much of this nothing's really changed? Have you gotten that kind of input? I mean, some things have changed and become better, but there's a heck of a lot that hasn't.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

And look, my my story is is is kind of odd. There are two women in my family uh who experience schizophrenia. Well, they one of them is gone now. Um and it was always shrouded in mystery in our family and um coated behind veils and walls and things that weren't spoken about. And it took me until I was sort of about 16 years old and sitting with one of these women who we were having a discussion about brushing your teeth of all things. And I noticed that her speech patterns were changing and she was becoming incredibly agitated and I didn't understand what was happening. And afterwards in the car, my mother sort of admitted uh that um there was this thing that she had um that that we don't talk about. Um this was her relative? Yeah, um yeah. Uh and um and and uh and I think um it was the not talking about what was going on um with with Roz. It was that it was the hiding of it, it was the closed doors, it was the speaking mechanisms, uh, it was the kind of the mystery of what is this doing to to all of us, to our family. Um and then then at a much later date, uh my mother's sister was was also diagnosed. Um and again, um it was sort of out of a culture of and I think through no fault of the families, you know, it was a family, it is a family struggling to to speak about these things, to understand them, to come to terms with them, to find a language for them. But um it was it was the behind closed doors-ness of it that um that was my first experience of it, the kind of the the shame, I guess, if you will. Um and uh so what struck me about Anne's approach in in 1991, when as you say, uh things were very difficult as they still are now, um was that she was um she found a way to speak publicly uh and to connect with people and to share her story. And she'd already had a long and storied career as a as a journalist and a you know, a TV presenter. She'd been on a really famous like soap ad.

SPEAKER_06 14:50

In Australia though, right? She was an Australian journalist.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

Yeah, she was uh yeah, um, so it was very difficult for her to to break the mould and to change the public perception of who she was, and very sort of, I guess, in a way, dangerous for a single mother supporting you know her children to to come out and sort of say, I am not this perfect blonde, you know, journalist who I I am I am someone who uh is in enormous pain and has experienced things that are yeah that are not so Veronica.

SPEAKER_04 15:21

Do you find that um or from from your knowledge of the cultures that uh the societal attitudes about serious mental illness in Australia are pretty similar to here in the United States?

SPEAKER_06 15:35

And we can ask about the UK as well, because that's where you are now.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

And in the UK now, and yeah, I mean, and and stunningly and you know, and and depressingly, very, yeah, very little has changed and and there are the similarities are great. Um and uh when we when we began the development of the play, there was one dissenting voice from from someone who was sort of around the project at the time who kind of said, why are we even like why are we even putting a play like why would we do a play like this? I mean, hasn't this all kind of been solved now?

SPEAKER_06 16:06

Excuse us while we laugh, not really, and cry a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

Yeah, but you you know, you speak to any mental health practitioner, to any family member, to anybody, anybody, anybody who, you know, who's experiencing this, who's read Anne's book, who's done their research, who has read your books, uh, listened to your podcast, and and the consensus overwhelmingly is is almost always um, you know, in terms of institutions, systems, responses, so so little has changed. Um I think the the sort of the miraculous part actually is that the people experiencing it and uh and the families are the people experiencing it, and those who love them are speaking more and telling greater stories, and that's where we see the change actually. And and to be honest, I think that's where the comfort and the catharsis resides is just with the people who are brave enough to tell their stories.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

I think that's right. And um, you know, originally someone like Anne, who was already used to her name in print and and so forth, I think those are the people early on who spoke up, Randy being a radio person, me being a legislator, and then Mimi just being the person that she is. I think um, you know, the outspoken people speak up first. But you're right, now, you know, this conference I just came from, they were regular people just telling their stories forthrightly. And I think that's happening not just in the comfort of a mental health conference, but just in general. That I think is a wonderful, huge change.

SPEAKER_06 17:38

Yeah, getting past the shame, not just for the person with the illness, but for the family. But also it comes to mind for me that with schizophrenia, especially, it's only a small percentage of people who have it that are willing to speak for themselves because of anasygnosia. If you don't know what that is, we have episodes on it, but it's the lack of awareness that you have the illness. Because of that, they're not advocating for themselves. Many are not, some are, and and that leaves their families to speak up for them, which leads to the impression that we're interfering families, that we're you know, we're overstepping our our bounds. And if you if you look my book up on Amazon and you and you filter out, or this might be on Goodreads, but anyway, if you if you filter out the reviews for the one that's most helpful, that got more, the one that comes up is my one-star review that says, How dare this woman exploit her son to have for financial gain? And I'm like, what financial gain? But you know, but you know, the the review is so angry that I would take it upon myself to tell this story. And sounds to me like it comes from someone unbalanced, but I don't know. But it's interesting that there were people that agreed, and so there's that shame for the family. And yeah, I'll leave it at that. I'll leave it at that because I want to I want to hear more about the the um the play and just um Mimi, I know you're on your phone and we can do anything in the chat room. Is there anything you want to ask about and right at the moment, or can we talk theater for a minute?

SPEAKER_04 19:30

I want you to talk theater on. Okay.

unknown 19:33

Me too.

SPEAKER_06 19:35

You know, I will just briefly, because I think stories, as long as you're saying it, I when my son, Ben, first got ill, and he's 40 now, so um I was like, oh, if this is inherited, it wasn't it isn't inherited, it's hereditary, but not necessarily inherited. But everyone's like, where'd it come from? Who has it? Who has it? So I was looking around, and I have a cousin who turns out isn't a blood relation, but that's another story for another time, but I thought she was. And DNA tests tell a lot. And she had one son, and people said to me, Oh, you should speak to your cousin because she actually has two sons, but no one talks about the other one. And I called her up and I said, I won't say her name, can we talk about your son? She goes, Oh, no one has asked me that for years. Everyone, everyone thinks he doesn't even really exist. So evidently the son I knew about was her second son, but her first son, similar to Ann Devison, I believe, was had childhood schizophrenia because of a uh a birth situation, and and the family wouldn't even talk about him. It was like he didn't exist at all. So she says it's such a relief to be able to talk about him. And because you know, even my own sister doesn't. So anyway, anyway, so the shame is there. So I want to talk. So this was your actual premiere. This is the first time this play was staged.

SPEAKER_02 20:59

It was the world premiere. It sounds very grand, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_06 21:02

It does. So what brought you to them or them to you? Like, so when a playwright writes a play, you put it out there with whoever publishes it, I guess. How did how did and you were in UK at the time?

SPEAKER_02 21:18

I was no, I was actually in in Melbourne, which is sort of down south from Sydney where the Velvet Theatre is, um in in lockdown, on and off, uh, you know, that sort of two two-year period. And I I I took it upon myself to option the book. Uh, I could barely afford it, but I just thought I'm I'm gonna do this. I'm writing this play. There was no sense in it in any rational way, shape, or form. I hadn't written a play for a really long time. I've been in the screen industry, nothing made sense, but I was just determined. And so off I went. I sat at the kitchen table, I cried a lot. The first act took like a year to write. My daughters would come in and out and find me kind of sitting just sort of like around my piles of laundry and food and crying, and it was all a mess. Um, but I I was incredibly lucky that I'd had a conversation with uh a director, a beautiful gifted director called Leticia Casares, who also lived in Melbourne, and I'd said to her, I have this crazy plan. Um, and it's to write this play, and here's the book, and would you consider directing it? And she um in her incredibly passionate, straight up Argentinian way, just said yes. Um she got a copy of the book straight away and said yes, yes, yes. And and we both agreed that Belvoir was the place for, it was the only place in a way that we wanted to premiere the show if we should be so lucky. Um, because it's it's a theatre known for great humanistic works. It sits right in in the heart of Surrey Hills, surrounded by you know four million dollar terraces right next to kind of housing commission flats. There are people with serious mental health issues walking up and down that street. There are Mercedes kind of parking there. It's a it's a very interesting um crucible, you might say, of kind of Sydney society. And it's just down the road from where um Ann's son Jonathan uh you know his life ended, but it's also where a lot of his life unfolded in that seven years. Um, so it just felt like it is the only place we know these audiences, we know what why they turn up, and they turn up because they're not afraid, and they turn up because they care about um big things. So that's what we told Belvoir Theatre Company, and and then very happily they agreed. Um I mean, I think I literally said to Eamon Flack, who's the artistic director, I like it's it's here or nowhere, you know, so you know, no pressure, but it's kind of you have to do it. And so thank goodness they they did. Um so that's why it was Belvoir. There was never anywhere else in our mind, although obviously now it's had one season, we would love to see it um to travel.

SPEAKER_06 23:57

Um but um Belvoir was the right place with the right to Yeah, I saw the press conference or the taping of the press conference, you know, the time difference is crazy, but I it seemed like absolutely the right home for it. Every little, you know, the little clips and stuff, and you can see some like the trailer for it and the promo for it on YouTube. The critical acclaim, how what I'd like to know is how did audiences respond? I mean, were people coming only if they were already interested in mental illness, or do they have a subscription base of people who said, I never knew families went through it? Like what kind of reactions were you there for the opening? You were still there in Australia?

SPEAKER_02 24:37

I was, I was I flew back because I'd moved to the UK by this point, but I flew back to Australia and I had about a week before the show opened. Um, and that included uh a set of previews with with audiences, um, which is terrifying because um and the very first preview, actually, which is is funny now, we can laugh, but um I mean the show we we we built it so carefully to be to be that's obviously incredibly heartbreaking and difficult and challenging, but it's also very, very funny. Uh and uh and you know there are all these kinds of facets to the experience and to Anne's journey and to Jonathan's journey that are that are meant to really make you laugh and cry. And the very, very, very first uh preview, the audience sat there in stony silence for the whole first act, which is an hour long. And we all sat at the back thinking, we've oh my god, we've failed. They hate it, they're alienated, they've you know, it's just it's bad, it hasn't worked. Um, and we all kind of sat there at interval and we've gone on such a journey with it that no one was blaming anyone else. We were just thinking, okay, well, the show hasn't worked, that's fine. We just need to sit down and sort of think about why. Um, but but Leticia, the director being Leticia, uh, at halftime when they were coming, the audience was coming back in, she grabbed one woman and said, I love the jumpsuit. And I was thinking, oh wait, what are you why? Um don't ask. The woman turned to her and said, Oh, you're the director. I'm a clinical psychiatrist. Pretty much everyone who's turned up here tonight is is a clinician, uh, is a psychiatrist. You know, we all want to be first in to see the show. And she said, We love it, it's incredible. Um, and we realized that what they were doing for that first hour was just listening incredibly intently.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

Um and I mean, and and thank God for intervals and alcohol because that two listening is what psychologists do, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

Yeah, so we we thought we failed, but in fact, no, they and they gave us a ringing endorsement of of the approach and and the representation. And then she said, you know, in our practice, we so rarely actually really think about the families, we, you know, um, and this is so incredible for us. And we had a standing ovation at the end of that performance, and then um, and then incredibly after um every single performance that that followed, and uh, and in terms of the people who showed up, it was it was an incredible mix of um of people who knew and loved the book, who knew and loved Anne personally, uh people who just liked the theatre company and came along, and and then there were people who did not know what they were turning up for. Um so so with all of that, you know, we were um we were thrilled and humbled by by how it worked for people and it did seem to I disappear. I never actually read the reviews because I'm um You don't do that. Yeah, but but what they were good. Oh yeah, they were good. The theater company did share the the emails and messages that that came flooding in from people and um Wow and they were you know they they they were they were nice.

SPEAKER_06 27:52

Did did ticket sales and I now I'm thinking as you know, of course my wheels are turning, like oh, I've got to bring this to Westport Country Playhouse and I want to bring the play to America and I don't even know how to do that because I'm not an artist, I'm just I'm an actor, I'm a stage actor, so I'm not an artistic director, but I am thinking, how do I bring it? So they'll want to know, did it sell, did it sell? Did people buy tickets?

SPEAKER_02 28:14

Sold, it sold. And I think there was a fear that, oh God, you know, it's the play with the schizophrenia in it and it's sad, you know, and so no one can't, but actually that that wasn't the case. I think um what people what people turned up for um was was that sharing experience and the catharsis and the opportunity actually to cry in public, which I guess people have been needing to do for a few years. Um so uh so no, it wasn't, and I had always felt really, really powerfully that this was not an uncommercial show, you know, that it wasn't box office poison. And so it was it was an incredible relief to to discover that it wasn't. Um and also to to discover how many people had held that story and that book dear for 20 years or 30 years or since yeah, since 1991. Um because I thought I was the only one left who liked it. Um, but uh what was incredible is how many people had a connection to that book and how Anne's story had helped them um in some way, and not necessarily in dealing with with uh with schizophrenia or or you know serious mental illness, it's a story of of a a mother, a woman um whose the meaning in her life collapses, uh and and rather than falling on herself, she she extends herself, and and the number of people who are helped and emboldened by that story um is incredible.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

So yeah, I think it's there it's rare, you know. The books about family stories used to be rarer now. Meanie and I both noticed with our books coming out more recently that there's a lot more memoirs and stories, and so there's many more things to choose from. But when I was first looking for things, there weren't as many things. You know, I I don't remember uh Jim got diagnosed in 1999, so I you know may not have been looking back for books 10 years previous, but I did read um Randy's book, and I've told her this before. Of all the books I read, you know, some I passed on to others or sent off to book sales, but I kept hers because you know when a book resonates with you and you learn something from it, you get something out of it in your heart, you you kind of hang on to the story and the book.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

Yeah, yeah. And I think you cannot know how many people, yeah, how many lives you're saving by telling your story. You know, you may not be able to kind of dismantle the system and and restructure it in a day. But but the telling of the story, and and this is the thing that was the core of why we did the show, how we created the show, uh, was to say it was actually it was uh it was it was the it was the telling of the story that that has helped, comforted, healed, you know, done kind of innumerable things and educated.

SPEAKER_04 31:12

I mean that do you get feedback from from actual people who are living with this, like families and mothers and things like that? Do people reach out?

SPEAKER_02 31:22

Yeah, I mean, get not to me potentially, because I don't know, I think I'm kind of hard to reach. Um, but what we did would we did receive was a flood of letters and emails and responses uh from a lot of people who came to see the show, from people living with schizophrenia, friends of family. Um and and the unifying thing was this is correct, this is me, you know. Um I see myself, I see myself on stage. And not only that, I think people felt that it dignifies the struggle to have it dramatized rather than sort of diminishes it or exploits it or um you know uses it for sort of I mean, yeah, you know, the the screen industry and and even the stage, you know, sort of culture doesn't have an unblemished record with mental illness and this representation. But you know, there are some awful, awful, awful things and and and the damage they do is is you know throws a long shadow, doesn't it, in terms of people's perception of what schizophrenia might be?

SPEAKER_01 32:26

Um I I have a question for both Veronica and Randy, because I always wonder this when I go to a play, how do the actors keep from crying? You know, if you're in a really sad scene, I always feel like if I were an actor, I would feel like bursting into tears too. How do you stay in your part and not uh not do that?

SPEAKER_02 32:47

I, you know, I'm I yeah, I'm I'm in awe of of this cast. Uh they they didn't, I mean they did, they cried a lot. Um you know, I sort of I'd seen them all um, or a number of them sort of a year before when we had uh did a little read through of the of the show. When I turned up in person after they'd done a month of rehearsals, they were wasted. They were so skinny and down to the bone and sinewy because it's a physical show, but also it had made its demands on them and they we hadn't even opened yet. And um I think uh we we um we will be thanking them for you know for a very long time because they they actually didn't hold back. They there were nights where I would watch the show and I would watch Nadine Gardner who played Anne and think, is she okay? I actually don't know that she's all right at she was so deeply in it. Um so um I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 33:42

I don't know. That's interesting. I mean, and I can answer that as an actor in that, you know, when you're making a speech, you want to practice it so you don't cry. But if you do, you do, and then you breathe and you have your emotions and you don't judge your emotions. As an actor, if it's going to make you cry, then cry. It's hard when you're singing. I will say, you know, there's a technique, there's a technique to kind of cry or you know, sing over the tears, but I will tell you that every character I've ever played used a part of me to be that character. And Mimi knows a lot of actors, she does a lot of murals, and you have a lot of friends in the acting industry as well. And uh every character I've ever played lives in me, and I like to think I live in them.

SPEAKER_03 34:34

I've never played I guess we shouldn't be waiting. I'm sorry, I was gonna say, I guess we shouldn't, I guess we shouldn't be waiting for schizophrenia, the musical. No, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_06 34:44

But you know, I I I love that Veronica, you know, you you you there was laughter in your play because there always there always has to be laughter, and even like who's afraid of Virginia Woolf has laughter in it, or otherwise you wouldn't stay for the drama. So, and I love that for people with schizophrenia felt that they were well represented. And I think that's partly because you you saw the humanity, and for me, you know, laughter is a huge part of humanity. Um, so I'm curious, as I know you listen to our podcast, which I appreciate, you and or the cast and the director, like where else did you turn for research? And and you're a mom. So how did it affect you emotionally to to dive so deep into the world of a parent whose child is getting ill like that?

SPEAKER_02 35:34

Uh it it uh well, yeah. As I said, I you know the first act took a year to write, and all I was cry was very slow going. Um, and uh and I went over and over and over the book. I did a lot of Googling, I did a lot of listening to people. Um sometimes I couldn't, you know, sometimes I just thought I can't actually can't read anything else about this today. Um, I think you know, um, you probably all experienced that yourselves, you know, you sort of um uh it was more actually as as a daughter, I was very worried about how my mother would respond given that she has a sister who is a very, very late diagnosis of schizophrenia, her only cousin in the whole world who she adores. Um and just the kind of the difficulty around that. So I I I worried that to death. And in the end, she she decided not to see the show uh because it would be too painful for her. Um and she's in her 80s now and and and travel is a problem as well, but it was mainly just it was it was going to be too hard for her on a whole series of levels. Um so yeah, it went it was hard in it, yeah. It was um um, but you know, I'm just the conduit. I I did feel very profoundly that I'm you know, for some reason fate had me walk past the door. Um, and I couldn't let it go. And so I had to bring this into the stage, but but I really did feel a small piece of something so gigantic once the show had met its audience. I just felt I was just some sort of um, yeah, some weird conduit. Um so my own kind of emotional difficulty was it feels like you know, it shouldn't be talked about too much. There are greater emotional difficulties in the world.

SPEAKER_06 37:19

Um well, but it's it's good. I mean, and and I've been thinking because we we have an episode where we talk about movies and TV shows that got it wrong and a couple that got it right, but nobody watched them. So especially since COVID, when we didn't get a chance to go to live theater for so long, now as an actor, and it's coming back because people are just going, oh, screw it. I've had my vaccinations, I'll take my chances. I don't know. I've been, you know, I wear a mask when I feel like I need to, and I'm quadruple vaccinated. So I think we just like have to be with other people. And I think it's a different experience to see this family play out in a theater where you're sitting with other people and you're actually having a collective energy experience with the actors on the stage, that circle of connection, then it might be watching, I know this much is true on HBO or any of those things, even if they got schizophrenia right. And I'm using air quotes if you're not on YouTube and you're just listening. I it seems to me like your play must be so affecting to an audience seeing it live and being able to discuss it during the interval, the intermission, and maybe go home and discuss it with their families. At least I hope so. I haven't heard of any plays that do what your play did. So I'd like you actually only have about five minutes left. So I'd like to know uh what's ahead for this play and where people can find out about it and find out about you and what plug away.

SPEAKER_02 38:59

The play, the play we hope will um will play uh um hopefully at least one more season in Australia. Um, I'd love to see it come to the United Kingdom. I'd love to see it, I'd love to see it go uh everywhere. It is being read by by people who are interested in in you know taking it elsewhere. There's a film version in the works, but but it's interesting. I I do think I did feel very powerfully and I still do that it's so important for people to physically come together. Um it's too easy to just press pause. Um you know, it's too easy to swipe it away, I think um once it's a screen story. It's really, really important that people get in their cars or get on the bus, you know, show up. Uh that you know, that's kind of what the show is about. It's about showing up. So I think you the the the um you know the physical and emotional act of showing up um is is really particular and important to this. So hopefully it'll it'll have another run in Australia. I'd really like to see it come to the United Kingdom because then my husband could see it because he couldn't make it up.

SPEAKER_06 40:07

And maybe your daughter, since they saw you cry, may as well see the play, right?

SPEAKER_02 40:11

Yeah, well, my eldest daughter, well, that baby that I was sort of walking around, you know, she's 21 now, so she came. She came tonight with me.

SPEAKER_01 40:19

That happens.

SPEAKER_02 40:20

Yeah, so she she was there and that was incredible. And uh it was it was wonderful to sit next to her and and mull on, you know, how odd life is. You know, the only reason I ever walked past that door is because I had her. Um and here we are. And um uh so yeah, so hopefully lots of other lots of other versions of it.

SPEAKER_06 40:43

Is it published by Samuel French or who is the publisher of the play? Or is it the first one?

SPEAKER_02 40:48

It hasn't published yet. It actually just went straight into production, literally from me, straight to the theater company. Um, but hopefully it'll be published in some form so people can read it. But you know, I could just send you a copy. Um I would love it. I'm happy to just send them the actual play script. Um uh and and then in terms of yeah, what's next for me, all kinds of things, but um, but um but I'm always, always, always writing about matters of the heart and mind um in every way, shape, and form. And um and I think none of us who worked on this will will proceed you know the the way we were before, having had this experience. Um it was it was making a show that um it really meant something to people beyond a good Friday night. It was um yeah, it was it it was it was yeah.

SPEAKER_06 41:42

Theater at its best. Mimi or Min. Go ahead, go ahead. Well, I think so.

SPEAKER_02 41:48

I mean, I could I could say the team who brought it forward, the cast, they really did. They brought something that um I think for a lot of people um was deeply necessary. So we're pleased.

SPEAKER_06 41:59

Well, thank you so much. And do you, I mean, if people want to know more about you, is there a website or you do this all kind of just at your kitchen table? And you're not very public. It was hard to find you. I think I found you through Letitia. So um no, I'm very shy.

SPEAKER_02 42:14

I have an agent. I don't have a website. I I you know, I I'm I'm barely on social media. Uh, I'm I'm basically a recluse.

SPEAKER_06 42:23

Uh um so if anybody wants to produce it, they should contact me because I'm out there and I'll contact you. How does that or your agent, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 42:32

I don't know how this works. My agents are both extroverts, so they're the women to speak to.

SPEAKER_06 42:38

Okay, then who's your agency?

SPEAKER_02 42:41

Okay, so uh so in Australia it's a woman called Nellie Flannery at the Shanahan Agency. In England, it's a wonderful woman called Kathy King at an agency called 42. Um, and they're both wonderful.

SPEAKER_06 42:53

Um thank you. Mimi or Mindy, any last-minute questions or comments?

SPEAKER_01 42:58

Just thank you very much. We all wish somebody would produce each and every one of our books and bring your Anne's book to the United States.

SPEAKER_02 43:07

Well, they they should. Uh, and yeah, and as I said, um you were with this in spirit, whether you wanted to be on New It at absolutely every single step of the way. The number of times I'd get a text kind of going, I'm just listening to three moms, and oh my god. Um many, many epiphones, and um much of your wisdom is enshrined inside the show.

SPEAKER_06 43:29

So thank you. Well, we're we're thrilled to have been a small part of this, and um, it was a pleasure to meet you, and thank you so much for bringing our stories to life through this story. We really appreciate it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 43:46

We all owe you. That's all I can say.

SPEAKER_06 43:49

Hey, thanks for joining us for this episode of Schizophrenia Three Moms in the Trenches with Randy Kay, Mindy Gryling, and Miriam Feldman. To get in touch with us or to learn more about our books, please visit our websites at MiriamHyfenfeldman.com, mindygryling.com, or randyk.com