No One Cares About Crazy People: A Documentary Film-in-Progress -Ep. 95

No One Cares About Crazy People is a feature documentary film-in-progress about the tragedy, crisis and chaos of severe mental illness in America – and a burgeoning national crusade to do something about it

NO ONE CARES ABOUT CRAZY PEOPLE takes us inside the tragedy, chaos, and crisis of severe mental illness in America. It derives in part from Ron Powers’ acclaimed book of the same name, a hybrid narrative of tragic family memoir and searing social history.

Guest: Gail Freedman, Director & Producer

Your support is critical to help us complete this film and tell the powerful stories that can be a catalyst for new understanding and action. All gifts, grants and donations are fully tax-deductible.

Links:

https://noonecaresfilm.com/

Congrats Aiden Keltner, friend of the podcast! @amazinggraceshortfilm received 3 of the 4 Emmys we were nominated for including, Arts Entertainment Program, best director and best performer!

Amazing Grace Film 

An aging single mother fights to hold onto the only life she’s ever known as her son with schizophrenia begins to lose his sanity.

Mindy and her book: https://mindygreiling.com/

Randye and her book: https://www.randyekaye.com/

Miriam and her book: https://www.miriam-feldman.com/

Transcript

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SPEAKER_02 0:00

It's been interesting to me from the beginning. Someone would ask me, What are you working on? And I would tell them, two-thirds of the people, I I swear, in case some cases, people I'd known for many years, and I thought I knew a lot about them, would say, My sibling, my parent, my child, my neighbor, my co-worker. I think we underestimate how widespread this is, and how many people can be made to care and feel like something better and something different can take place.

SPEAKER_03 0:28

That's the voice of Gail Friedman, director and producer of the upcoming film No One Cares About Crazy People. It's actually a feature documentary film in progress, and it's about the tragedy, crisis, and chaos of severe mental illness in America and a national crusade to do something about it. Welcome to our podcast, Schizophrenia. Three moms in the trenches. From the place where schizophrenia and real life collide. East Coast, West Coast, Middle America. With Miriam Feldman, Mindy Gryling, and Randy Kaye. We're so glad you're here for episode 95. We are going to be talking about a film in progress that is very, very close to being done and has a chance to change the world of those of us dealing with mental illness. It's called No One Cares About Crazy People. And we're going to get to that in a second, but I just, I'm Randy Kay, and I'm here with Mimi Feldman and Mindy Gryling, who at the moment has her video off because a storm is coming in the middle of the country and uh it's a little spotty. So we are three moms with three sons, not three sons each. We each have one son with schizophrenia, and we've written three books about it. And this is episode 95. We're approaching our 100th episode of this podcast in four seasons, and we're delighted that you're here. I want to start just Mindy and Mimi by congratulating a friend of the podcast. I don't know if you heard about this, but Aidan Keltner, who yes, created a short film called Amazing Grace, which we had the privilege of seeing. And then Mindy, did you have him as a house guest?

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Yes, I uh we had him here. He stayed with us a couple nights. We had a focus group with um with a variety of moms. And then also later, both Jim and I went back and forth when he asked questions. Like one thing he asked Jim was exactly what did you wear and what did the staff wear in the behavioral health unit? So Jim is very proud of his awards, too.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

That's that's wonderful. So Aiden is he's a San Diego and Los Angeles based filmmaker. And uh our our guest tonight, Gal Friedman, may want to know about him or know him. He directed his first film when he was eight. He's been making films ever since. Remembers me a bit of Ron Howard. Um, Aiden's father is a psychiatrist, and Aiden has multiple family members with mental illnesses. So the mental health community is a part of his life. And his short film, Amazing Grace, which is about an aging single mother fighting to hold on to the only life she's ever known as her son with schizophrenia, begins to lose his sanity. And Aiden visited Mindy to get a help, she helped him get a focus group together. And I also had him as a house guest. He was a great house guest, by the way. But we did a Zoom focus group because he wants to really talk and get the details right about what it's like having a family member with schizophrenia because he's working on a longer film project. But in the meantime, he won three Emmys. We're so excited. Three of the four Emmys that they were nominated for, uh, including Arts Entertainment Program, Best Director, and Best Performer. So congratulations, Aiden. That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

He was an incredible, and I was so happy in the pictures when he was getting those awards.

SPEAKER_03 4:04

Yes, absolutely. So um we're here tonight, and I want to bring our next guest in right away. I've just finished editing our last episode, and we did talk for quite a long time before we brought our guest in. So um, you know, a lot of times on this podcast, we talk about the problems in the system. We've all experienced it. We talk about it in our books. We've each done our own types of advocacy, Mindy on a legislative as well as maternal basis. And Mimi and I threw the arts and our parenting for our sons, but the system needs help. And I would say that um a man named Ron Powers was mad about it too. And he wrote a book called No One Cares About Crazy People. And now that book is a film in progress. There's a website, it's really gonna hit you when you see it. That acclaimed book is a film in progress. And I would like to bring in our guest, Gail Friedman. So, Gail, you can go ahead and turn on your camera because Gail's gonna talk about this project and how it got to be where it is and and what we can do. Um so welcome. Welcome to the honor to have you. Now, I I didn't get to read your bio, but you're you you have like uh sort of a mosaic of a career like me. You were a one-time aspiring concert pianist, and then you abandoned the stage for the screen and you stopped in academia, government, and healthcare. So life is like that. But in 25 years, as an award-winning filmmaker, you've produced, directed, and written dozens of documentaries. And this is one of them. So can can you start by telling us you know about how the book and how you decided it, or I don't know who decided, how did it go from book to film, the process and why and how did you get involved?

SPEAKER_02 6:03

Well, the film is actually not a translation of the book. It's inspired by the book, as we'll say at the beginning of the film. Um, and the way this process began was that um I knew Ron many years ago when I was a baby in the business at CBS News. Ron was already a well-established journalist um and had won various Insundry Awards. And I was greener than grass, um, arrived at CBS, but we met and we became friends, and then had lost touch for some years. He and his family moved to Vermont. We weren't all constantly on social media as we are now, and I I learned what had happened with his family um and read the book and um could see immediately that there was the germ of a film there, the the spine, if you will. Um, the project has evolved and grown a lot of other tentacles since I began. But um, I reached out to Ron and he said, Well, I'd be open to it. I don't know how my family's gonna feel about it. Why don't you just come visit us and let's, without a camera crew, let's just come visit and let's explore this.

SPEAKER_03 7:11

And so Okay, and so for someone who hasn't read the book and it's very spelled out in the first 30 seconds of the trailer, to just tell us briefly what happened to his family.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

Um, Ron, who is um a fabulous writer, his wife Honore, an esteemed scientist, had two sons, um Dean and Kevin, both of whom were diagnosed with schizophrenia. Um, their younger son, Kevin, who was a musical prodigy, uh, an absolutely brilliant guitarist, um, sadly took his own life a week before his 21st birthday in the family home. And a couple of years later, his older brother was also diagnosed. Um, although thankfully Dean is still with us and lives in the family home. Um but it was, you know, again, we were talking inconceivable. And so Ron, having never intended to write about this subject, uh, after 10 years, it took him 10 years, but he decided that he really had to. And it turned it's it's a hybrid narrative. It's half um tragic family memoir, although also full of joy and love, and it's half very deeply researched reportage about um mental health, mental illness policy, going back centuries really, but in particular, really looking at the last 50, 60 years in American history and how the system has devolved, um, and how it doesn't, as you all well know, it doesn't really matter what resources you have and you know what advantages your family has, uh, this system that is not a system in many ways can can let you down in pretty lethal ways. So I I could, as I said, I could see that there was um there was the the germ of a film there. And then as this was late 2019 when we began, right before COVID. So I had literally gotten as far as spending a day and a half with Ron and Honore and Dean. Um, and uh I think I had done one sit-down with DJ Jaffe, um, and then we were shut down. Um and I wasn't exactly sure it was going to happen, but I decided to just keep researching and keep learning and keep developing um from an editorial standpoint. And I came to know, oh, sorry about that sound, which I'm not sure what I came to realize that the family dimension of this was not a well-known story, that you know, the one didn't hear often about the families and how this is really a full family disease in many ways. It's not just the person who has the disease, but it's everybody in their orbit who lives with this. Don't we know it? Yes, don't you know it indeed? But that that's an ex a part that I had not seen. I had seen a few other films that I thought addressed serious mental illness quite well from a scientific perspective, um, even from sociological, but not really looking at this dimension. And it was clear, and my hope was that COVID wouldn't um put the brakes on, but it was clear to me that there was this family advocacy movement that was poised to gain traction. Um, and indeed, so I started following several other stories um in California, in Connecticut, um, Ron's family in Vermont. And it became clear to me that in California, there was a lot of um talk, which has now become action, and we'll see how implementation goes, but really trying to remake this system. Um and the good news about having been sidetracked during COVID was that when we came back to it, the legislature in California was really gearing up. And over the last couple of years, we've been able to follow in real time not only incredibly intimate human stories, and this is a very intimate film, but also what's been going on in California, which may turn out to be a template for the rest of the country. Just as much of what happened in reverse in the 60s began in California and spread across the country. The hope among some of the legislators and certainly um the governor is that now um trying to really tackle this in a lot of pretty fundamental ways is something that can also be a blueprint for change. Um, and we didn't know how that was all going to play out. So it all played out in real time. So um, as did, as I say, the personal stories that we were telling, because I realized that um the Powers family story, although it's ongoing, much of it was obviously in the past. And I and I'm very interested and always in trying to follow in real time on the ground and be with people as things unfold. And so um we spent a great deal of time. If I don't know if all of you are familiar with Mark Rippy and his family out in California, um we've spent a lot of time with the Rippe family, um, with uh the Burgos family in Connecticut, uh, where the husband and father um lives with uh pretty major bipolar disorder. Um and their lives were in complete upheaval um over the course of the time we were filming. Um and and a couple of other stories as well. Um we spent time with uh Teresa Pasquini and with her son Danny out in California, um, and a great deal of time with um a woman named Senator Susan Eggman, who's a really interesting um figure in the film, who has sponsored much of the legislation that has come to pass of late, is herself a social worker by background, um, had serious mental illness in her family and also uh in her first serious relationship. So she brings a personal and a professional bent of her own to this. Um, and so she became very significantly involved in the film as well. So it has all these tentacles that I hadn't originally intended, but I I think I hope what we are we've done is to weave it into a kind of tapestry that um uh that certainly humanizes the face of these serious brain disorders that lets people who are often not centered in their own stories be centered and speak for themselves and convey their reality, ditto their families, and to really understand the stakes and why the system change is so essential. Um, so it's sort of in a nutshell, I guess. I mean, that's a lot, right there.

SPEAKER_03 13:58

But yeah, it's it's definitely a lot. And the the stories uh in the trailer alone are are heartbreaking and um it's not just about heartbreak, it's about it wants to stir you to action. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

So Yeah, we don't want to leave people doomy and gloomy. We wanted, we tried to begin and end with hope. I mean, another story we tell in the film is that of uh Miles Hall, who is a young African-American man in Walnut Creek, um, California, whose family had um reached out to the police locally. They lived in a primarily white neighborhood and they knew that Miles being black was at there was some danger there. Um, and despite all of the outreach, um, in the middle of an episode, Miles was shot and killed by the police. And they turned their pain to purpose and started a foundation and worked with their local assemblywoman and um got the 988 law in California named after Miles. It's called the Miles Hall Lifeline and Suicide Act. And at least in California, I know there's a move to do this elsewhere in the country also. When someone reaches out and calls 988, it's going to be hopefully a healthcare response, not a police action. Um, so we tried to thread hope and positivity without sugarcoating, but to actually show change is possible, change is essential, change. Um, change is happening.

SPEAKER_03 15:26

So do you see this as a uh as a vehicle for changing legislation on a state level, on a federal level? And as you probably know, Mindy was a state legislator for many, many years. And Mindy, you can try unmuting and talking if you want to. I'm looking at your beautiful smiling face on YouTube. Uh and but you do you see this as a way to open the eyes of people who make policy?

SPEAKER_02 15:56

I hope so. Uh, I see this as a general interest film, that's my hope, for a very broad audience. Most of the work I've done has had wide distribution. So obviously there's a natural audience, right? People who live with this, who have it in their families, who, you know, have a skin in the game, as it were, will be drawn to it. But I'm hoping for um for a more general audience to come to this as well. And you're right, you said call to action. And I without it being, I hope, teachy preachy, because that's not my approach, um, I hope that we will get um screenings from the federal level on down to the state level and city level around the country. I mean, the outreach and promotion uh portion of this is really baked in. So yeah, I mean, I hope that we can be one piece of what you're all doing and that, you know, that that change indeed will be possible because it has to be. I mean, it's simply inconceivable that things can go on the way they are. And I think uh I dare to hope, uh I haven't been in this as long as all of you have, but I dare to hope we're at a bit of a tipping point and that for a variety of reasons people are paying more attention. What's interesting, it's been interesting to me from the beginning. Someone would ask me, what are you working on? And I would tell them, and I uh two-thirds of the people, I swear, in some cases, people I'd known for many years, and I thought I knew a lot about them, would say, My sibling, my parent, my child, my neighbor, my coworker. I think we underestimate how widespread this is, and how many people can be made to care and and feel like something better and something different can take place. One thing I will um I will announce here, which we haven't actually announced previously, in an attempt to make sure we do have widespread distribution, um, we are very blessed that the actor um Bob Odenkirk, if any of you have ever seen Breaking Bed or Better Call Saul. Sure, sure. Bob is narrating our film. Wonderful. Yeah. Uh, and we have um a wonderful musician, um, Jeff Tweedy, who is the frontman for Wilco, which has been around since the 90s and won Grammys. And Jeff is um creating original music for the film. So we have some Gavin Newsom gave us an interview. Uh, we have some nice, I I hope, um, some nice more key value elements that I think will help, I hope, propel us. Um, so that because you know, it's a as you, it's a tough subject, it's a tough sell, right? What what made you initially uh drawn to do this? Um, I guess there's a three-part answer to that. Um, one, that I knew Ron going back years, uh, and so obviously had an incredible feeling for this. Um, my mother lived um largely undiagnosed and untreated with uh borderline personality disorder. So I too had a family element. Um, and years ago, earlier in my career, I was um a health and medicine reporter and I had worked um in the mental health system briefly. So I, you know, all of those things kind of came together. Um, and it just seemed like a sweet spot. It made total sense that this is something that I would take on.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

I've obviously I thought I knew a fair amount, but what I've learned over the course of the last five years is that was going to be my next question is once you got into it, it really must have lit a fire, right? Absolutely, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

Yeah. And and then it becomes um a passion and a labor of love and a must get it done, you know. Um, so yeah, I mean it starts out as something that's kind of um intellectual and it's interesting, and it was, you know, a very different topic from my last couple films. And but and then it it just, you know, it's become a huge piece of my life.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Um so I'm gonna try to talk, and Randy or Mimi, tell me if I'm breaking up, I'm trying without my video to see if that works better. So far, so good. Okay, great. So back to um the question how to get this into policy action. And obviously, California is doing a lot, um, Arizona's working on some things. Um, we are down to two states now that don't have um civil commitment statutes for AOT. So there's things happening across the country. Um, but I always say, having been a legislator, as Randy said, that all politics are local. So um it adds up to have this kind of program. Um we had Bedlam, um, we had the program that Judge Leifman and Noor Mornstein worked on, you know, these programs are starting, there's Adam's or um Aiden's program where you got the Emmy Awards that a young person working on short films. So all of this is mounting and helping to reach the tipping point, but I still say all politics are local. So in order to actually have individual policymakers do something, the added match has to be telling your own story to your own legislator. So tomorrow morning at 8:30, I have um a legislat, a state legislator coming here to my house with um seven parents, and one of them has her son in huge crisis, and the system has totally failed him, even though he was in the first episode program. And now he's still a young person and he's you know living a disastrous life. So we are taking that story to a local representative. We've included some of his constituents, because constituents are even more magical, lighting that match with action. And then I think having the kind of program you're working on to augment that, you know, if this same legislator sees that program or sees some of the other programs, because he does work on mental health issues in the Minnesota legislature, it all adds up. But I would say to get the most immediate action, individual constituents have to lead the way for people to watch your program because you know there could be a program on diabetes, there could be a program on this or that. But mental illness, when all of us practically have somebody in our family or certainly our close friends, but we don't speak up as much as we could. So I think we have to do that in order to get the most out of this program. I think that's right.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

And I think that a lot of that is going to be where someone like myself relies on people like yourselves to help us spread the word, to encourage, as I was saying, at the federal, state, and local level to help us set up screenings and discussion groups and events and to really blast the outreach component. I mean, my intention is that this film will have a shelf life, that it's you know not going to be something that's gonna come out and then it's gonna be over. I mean, we are our distribution plans are not um set yet, so I'm not exactly sure of where we'll be broadcasting or streaming that's to come. Um, but it doesn't matter. Over time and over the long haul, there are all these possibilities of ways to get it out there. And I'm gonna need help with that. I mean, advocates like yourselves are gonna be essential to that process.

SPEAKER_03 24:00

We will definitely share whatever you need us to share. I would like to ask you. You came into this, I think it was a heart project because you knew Ron and his family, but as a journalist, what have what are one or two glaring things about the system that you learned that really surprised you or shocked you or appalled you or so many? Yeah, I know. Name the top two or three.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

And some of them aren't even, you know, overtly addressed in the film because you can't do everything. But um I think, and I sort of knew this, but the degree to which HIPAA, you know, the the HIPAA handcuffs that you all talk about, um, the degree to which that prevents families from being partners in care, um, it's pretty shocking. Um agreed.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

Yeah. I mean, you know, and I'm gonna I'm gonna underscore that with a real life story that our family experienced today, because Jim is in the hospital and he was in the physical part of the hospital since last Thursday. Um, and last night he was moved to the um behavioral health unit. So I called up, you know, pretty much every day when he was in the other unit, physical unit for his pneumonia, to um find out when the doctor would be there so I could make sure I was there too. Jim wanted me to be there because he can't remember everything. And then I asked him and he gets anxious. And so they told me when the doctor would be there. They told me how Jim was doing over the phone. And then the doctors did come in, sometimes as many as five or six, and they didn't bat an eye that I was there. So this afternoon, this morning, actually, I was at the hospital in the behavioral health unit. I called to see when will the doctor be there. Right away, the person who answered the phone said, let me see if he signed a release of information. And then they, you know, okay, he has. So then they talked to me. The doctor came, the psychiatrist came to Jim's room. And the first thing she said was, could you step out of the room, please? I need to talk to Jim. Um, I'm like, no, I don't think I will. I'd like to hear it too. And Jim would like to have me help. Uh remember what you're saying. So then she um let me stay there. But you know, she, and then afterwards, as she was leaving, she said, Jim, sometime when your mom isn't here, if you have things you would like to talk to me about, let me know. So this, you know, this kind of thing, and she was actually a wonderful person. I liked her in a lot of ways, but that's how they're trained.

SPEAKER_02 26:51

Yeah. And it's, I think there's also a lot of misconceptions about what HIPAA actually means and doesn't mean. You know, it doesn't mean you can't communicate and convey information. And sometimes I think that there's a tendency for some professionals to hide behind that, um, as opposed to making loved ones partners and care, you know. Uh, and I get that it's complicated and I, you know, and that people's privacy has to be respected. But you ask me what are some of the things that surprise me. I guess what another thing is, and again, it shouldn't in the society that is so divided as we are right now, but this notion that people are are so in their silos and there are these ideological lines in the sand about um what's okay and what's not okay, you know, only voluntary care, only, only, only, you know, never any involuntary care. Well, yeah, I mean, is that preferable? Sure. But is it an ideological line in the sand that can be applied to everybody? Yeah, not so much. I mean, why aren't we having these conversations? Why aren't we finding common ground instead of having these um these philosophical discussions that look good on paper just don't match up with what we see in the real world?

SPEAKER_00 28:10

Well, and also when you look at the parallels between people with mental health issues and people with Alzheimer's and uh um dementia, but Alzheimer's especially, uh, there's so many commonalities there, and a commonality of psychosis. And yet the way that these patients are dealt with couldn't be further apart. You know, when I always tell this story of, yeah, when when you know my grandmother with dementia is out wandering in the snow, the police will come and very kindly find her and take all the information and bring her home and share that with you. And when my mentally ill 20-something son is wandering around psychotic in the snow, there's a good chance they'll come and shoot him. Right. And that's not an exaggeration. You just told a story of that. And if you're brown, it's even higher.

SPEAKER_02 29:09

And so there's all these parallels and all these commonalities, and yet they're dealt in dealt with in such a different way, and it becomes so hard to have a conversation that brings us together. Nuance, the word nuance kept coming up in my brain throughout making this film because it's very hard to come by, and people are in their camps, and we have to get past that. I mean, there just has to be another way that we can address this. I mean, with Mark Rippe, I mean, at first, you know, Mark Rippe's case is not typical, whatever typical is, but I mean, he had a traumatic brain injury, and then he developed um schizophrenia syndrome um a couple of years later. But clearly, somebody who so desperately needed help did not know he needed help, would refuse help, and his family trying for 30 plus years, you know, as much as they possibly could. And I mean, you know, some of you may have encountered this, being told basically don't take him food, don't take him clothing, you know, don't take him supplies, because he's not disagreed, gravely disabled if you do all that. And so we can't step in and do anything for him.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

And it's the insanity of what you're doing with this documentary and what we're trying to do with our books and our big mouths is the answer to getting people out of their silos and and and stop being so disenfranchised from each other is to just tell the stories. Just tell the stories. And stories do mean the most to legislators. It's a story of another family that's similar to yours or that you can relate to, and all of a sudden it becomes easier to bridge that gap.

SPEAKER_02 31:00

Absolutely, that's exactly right. I think um, thank you for that. I mean, I think the power of storytelling is ancient and and incredibly modern, and some things don't change. And um, I said before that the film is very intimate. It is. Parts of it are very in your face, parts of it are hard to watch, parts of it are heartwarming. There's even moments of humor and joy. Um, but I think one thing that um I hope, one thing that distinguishes what we're doing is that you really feel that you get to know um our characters and care about them and gain some kind of nuanced understanding into what's possible and currently what is not possible. Um, so you know, I I I hope we can make some kind of difference. I really do.

SPEAKER_03 31:52

Um, I mean, I made this film to be seen, to be shared, not, you know, it's um, it's not so I can sit and watch it in my living room and so so let let's get to to that to see, you know, what still needs to be done and how people can help. And I will say that of all the and we get letters, as they say, we get letters. We and I would say uh the largest percentage is, but my loved one says they don't want my help. How can I convince them? That anasygnosia, the lack of insight that you're ill, which people with Alzheimer's have also, but for some reason, maybe because many are at the end of their life, people are more sympathetic. I don't know the reason, but that is the question we we just point them to our episode with Dr. Amador, and that's not a perfect system either, but it'll get you thinking in that direction. And that is probably the biggest, one of the biggest obstacles. I'm sure you found it in your film too. How do you help someone who says they don't have help? They die with their rights on, they have the right to live in a box and die of cold exposure. And that just makes no sense. And I'm sure you're the film, certainly in the Rippy, in the Mark Rippy story, that that is there. So, where is the film? I understand all the shooting's done, and you're at the editing process, post-production, or like what still needs to be done, and how can we help get this film completed?

SPEAKER_02 33:19

Thank you. That's very kind. Um, all the shooting is done. Um, we have now edited what's called a rough cut of the entire film. So the entire film is actually um the content and the structure have um been delineated. Now we move into what's called a fine cut where we kind of um we tweak scenes, we refine them, we streamline them, we and then a lot of what's post-production is very technical. Um, you know, it's color correct and sound design and sound mix and it's graphics and music and legal vetting and you know, all kinds of things that are essential to the process, um, but not as glamorous perhaps. Um I am, as which I swore I would never do again, but I am nonetheless simultaneously um filmmaking and fundraising. So honestly, one thing that can help me is um more contributions. Um where do they do that? How do they do that? Uh there's a donate link on our website so people can find out right there.

SPEAKER_03 34:19

Um and the website is um it's in the show notes, but in case someone's just uh it's noonecaresfilm.com. Noonecaresfilm.com. So you see the trailer there, right? They'll see the trailer there.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

Yep, the the teaser trailer. It's longer than a conventional trailer because it's like eight minutes or yeah, exactly. It's kind of a it's a sort of a development tool for the film. You can read more about the characters in the film, you can read more about my team and me. Um, and yeah, I mean, getting first of all, getting the word out like this is wonderful. Um, so that's great. I mean, we already have a pretty strong social media presence and we already have several thousand followers um on social media before there's even a film done. So that's great. Um, but yeah, I need to um I need to get us over the finish line. My goal is to have it um released before the end of the year. That will depend, so that's not very far away, actually. Um, so that will depend partially on um finishing the fundraising and then taking care of all the technical work and then figuring out a distribution strategy, whether that means that we're going to a particular festival first, and that's the calendar may be influenced by that. So I will continually update people um about all that, but um spreading the word, uh helping us find um people of means who have a passion for this subject and who can contribute in some way, um supporting us and spreading our social media channels. I mean, yeah, and you can link to all of that from the website. We're on Facebook and Instagram and formerly Twitter X threads now or whatever. Um we devolved that to the degree possible. I mean, it's a skeleton team. We're doing this as um, I like to say sometimes with uh chewing gum and paperclips, but we're nonetheless doing it. We are we are small but um with very big aspirations. And like I said, I haven't taken this on in order for it to just sit on the shelf. The idea is that it should really um, you know, go national and and even international and and hopefully touch people um and bring attention to this, that you know, is hard to come by right now. And it's and you know, it is hard because we are in a marketplace where, you know, celebrity biopics and true crime and action adventure are kind of the flavor of the week. So we're up against that. But I do think people increasingly do care about this subject. And if you can grab them with stories, as you've just been saying, with stories that move them, that affect their art and their head equally, and that give them a sense that things are possible, that change is possible, that we can do this better. Um, I think the audience is there. Uh, so we just need to find them. We just need to um get the word out and make create a groundswell. Um so that's you know, that's what comes to mind right now. Once we have more of a specific distribution plan in place, then there might be some um, you know, specific steps that we'll we'll ask people to take. But for the moment, just you know, yelling it from the rooftops.

SPEAKER_03 37:40

Yelling from the rooftops. And, you know, if I know that many of our listeners are already volunteering and donating to places like NAMI and uh schizophrenia and psychosis action alliance, and there are a lot of places, but film can touch hearts. So a donation to pay the film editors and the sound engineers and everybody else that needs to be paid for a film. Uh, if go to the website noonecaresfilm.com.org, right? Yeah, you know, I I I own both of them, but noone caresfilm.com is the prime. Is where you go. And if you can see your way to even a small donation, uh, let's get the film done, let's get it out there, and let's spread the word. And we can do it. I think that's what we have to do.

SPEAKER_02 38:25

Yes, thank you. I mean, it's um there's a lot of work to be done, you know. It's um, I mean, I I was gratified that three major pieces of legislation that we've been following in California all passed. So, I mean, other things did too, but it could have easily not turned out that way, you know. And as there's a a wonderful veteran journalist out there, uh named Dan Morane, who says on camera, look, truthfully, we're not gonna know for a year, 18 months, five years how this is all gonna play out. Come back in five years and we'll do it again. And and that's true. And I thought it was important to have that kind of reality check because you know, passing a law is not creating change in and of itself. So it's a start, and then everybody has to keep stepping up and stepping out. And um I am in awe um of all of you who not only have your own um families to take care of, but also are doing all of this extraordinary work um for everybody. And that's that's a lot, it's a lot to juggle. So I mean, I that's something else I took away from the film was uh the families, you know. It's uh I mean, I know the disability rights community, which I once would have considered myself part of, frankly. Um, I mean, I worked on a documentary series that was about people living with disabilities, and I've donated to the ACLU. But they have, you know, they say, nothing about us without us. Um and yes, but there are other voices too. Again, it's a chorus of voices. And, you know, as Therese Pasquini, an advocate in California, likes to say, nothing about us without all of us, you know.

SPEAKER_00 40:12

Yeah, because it's back to that thing of it's not just the person who has the mental illness, it's the experience that the entire family experiences that and has fallout from it. In my own family, I have three daughters as well as a son, and each one of them has had trauma and you know, issues that they wouldn't have had if he hadn't been sick, and so it does include the whole family and siblings, and obviously we're out there for the moms, you know, it's all part of it, it's all part of it.

SPEAKER_02 40:48

Yeah, having been a child, you know, who grew up with that, you know, it's um you know, it's it uh it stays with you your entire life, right? And if you keep it a secret, it becomes a double problem. Right. Well, there one thing that I'm very grateful for um was that we were granted, as you will see when I when I can share the film with you, which I look forward to, um, we were granted incredible access. People led us into their lives and into some very raw and private um and challenging moments. Um because I mean, you know, you you studied um writing and communication, and it's always show me, don't tell me, right? And I think that was something that we we've been striving for throughout uh the scripting and editing process is show me, don't tell me, show me, don't tell me.

SPEAKER_00 41:45

I think that's going to be so powerful in your film. I'm I'm so happy for that because you know, another thing that you run into a lot is people not wanting to let people see that. And it's so important and it takes real courage.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

Oh, yes, you took the words out of my mouth. It takes incredible courage. Um, our Connecticut family, um amazing. Uh, the way that they let themselves be vulnerable and truly understand that they are doing a public service in participation and in being part of that. And again, it just that's that is for me something that I took away. Just a great humility and a great um and a gratitude because I'm I'm the vessel, I'm the vehicle, I'm not the story, you know. I'm I'm the storyteller, and it's a privilege to be able to do that and a responsibility and one which I don't take lightly.

SPEAKER_03 42:41

Um, we're so delighted um to have spent this hour with you. And uh this has been a fantastic episode. We look forward to maybe being a small part of helping to fund the film by getting our listeners on board and to spread the word when it comes out. And thank you for everything you're doing, and thank you for joining us today.

SPEAKER_02 43:02

Thank you so very much. I really appreciate the opportunity and look forward to meeting all of you in person.

SPEAKER_03 43:08

Hey, thanks for joining us for this episode of Schizophrenia Three Moms in the Trenches with Randy Kay, Mindy Gryling, and Miriam Feldman. To get in touch with MSOR to learn more about our books, please visit our websites at MiriamHyfenfeldman.com, mindygryling.com, or randyk.com.