Rebuilding Life When you Have Schizophrenia: Rebecca’s Story, Part 2

Rebecca’s Story, Part 2

• What do the intrusive thoughts (aka to some, “voices”) say to you?
• Rebuilding your life, and giving to others - how does that help?
• Psychiatrists - the good, the bad, the changes, and why it matters
• Relationships - How were they affected? 
• Whether to disclose your illness? When? How?
• The ups and downs of recovery. how do you know when you are starting to slip?
• We talk about 4 pillars of recovery - treatment, structure, purpose, and love/community. Are these important, and how do you get them?
• What has family support meant for you?
• Has Covid affected you?
• Constructive self-talk: What words help you? What’s next in your life?
• What message would you give to those with Schizophrenia, their families, and practitioners?

Quotes:

“So much of this is...not only are we dealing with this illness, but we have to keep up with 50 million pills, or it may cause weight gain, or tardive dyskinesia, and it’s so..frustrating.” -Rebecca 

“When I take my meds, it’s not just for me. It’s for my family, my friends. Not just for me. That was a real big turning point.” -Rebecca

“The same types of thoughts haunt me when (the meds) start wearing off.” Rebecca 

“Four pillars of recovery (treatment, structure, purpose, love/community): these are not ‘mental illness needs’ - these are human needs.” -Randye

“When you have a mental illness such as schizophrenia, there are a lot of secrets...or shame...it’s hard to understand, and I think we need to give each other grace.”

Rebecca Lyn Phillips - 

Rebecca Lyn Phillips, 43, is a published author, speaker, and mental health advocate.  She regularly shares her story of trial and recovery to help others who need hope.  She wants to shine a light on a dark subject and show that life can happen again.

LINKS:

Mindy and her book: https://mindygreiling.com/

Randye and her book: https://benbehindhisvoices.com/

Miriam and her book: https://www.miriam-feldman.com/

Rebecca’s book, Heart to Heart:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0840792190/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_taft_p1_i0

“Living with Schizophrenia” Documentary: 

https://youtu.be/48YJMOcykvc

LEAP Foundation (Dr. Xavier Amador):

LEAP® (Listen-Empathize-Agree-Partner) is an evidence-based approach that shows you how to quickly gain the trust of someone you are at odds with.

https://lfrp.org/home

Dr Harriet Lerner :

https://www.harrietlerner.com/

Transcript

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SPEAKER_03 0:01

Welcome to our podcast, Schizophrenia. Three moms in the trenches. From the place where schizophrenia and real life collide. East Coast, West Coast, Middle America. With Miriam Feltman, Mindy Gryling, and Randy Kay. Hi, this is Randy Kay. This is part two of our interview with Rebecca Lynn Phillips. And episode nine, obviously, has part one. We pick up where Rebecca is talking about a relapse she had, which turned out to be a turning point. Rebecca shared in part one that she struggles to use the word voices. She prefers intrusive thoughts, and she's working on that. But those intrusive thoughts told her to flush all her medications down the toilet, and she has now found herself back in the hospital. Wow. It means so much to me to hear your side of it that way. And you know, I we have all taken family to family with Nanny and educated ourselves as moms as much as we can. And some of the things you've said, like for me, I don't like to name my own symptoms. Like I've had hip replacements, but I don't say I have arthritis. I can't say I have arthritis. Like you're not alone in not wanting to name your symptoms and put a name on it. And even my husband, who is is only in his 50s, he has had hip replacements and he also goes, Oh, yes, I wore them out running marathons. Like we all want to think that it's not this thing we name that has a stigma attached to it. So if you want to say intrusive, we all have thoughts. We all have little, you know, the angel on one shoulder, devil on one shoulder going, eat the cookie, don't eat the cookie, you know. So yeah, but I think what I've learned from talking to you and and not my son, because he doesn't like to talk about those things, he but other people is that it's those little things that get out of hand. I know many people who won't walk under a ladder. But if it were the only way to get away from a fire, they would walk under a ladder. Whereas with my son, if that was something he believed, he would stay in the fire. Like it was, it's yeah, so it's like it gets to a to an unmanageable strength. But some of the things that you hear are things we struggle with, but our frontal cortex is working well enough to go, oh, that's just you know, that's just a that's just a voice, just ignore that. Don't eat the brownie or what you know, whatever. So I so I can relate to some of what you're saying, but for the rest of it, it's opened my eyes to some of the things my son might be thinking. And you know, I thank you for that. It was that hospitalization after you can I call it hitting bottom with the psychosis? Yes, yeah. So the hospitalization after that, oh, and by the way, what was the documentary you uh referenced so for our listeners?

SPEAKER_01 3:08

So if they ever that you did, it was called Okay, it's um you it's actually on YouTube now. Um it's called Living with Schizophrenia, um, a call for hope and recovery. But if you go to YouTube and put Living with Schizophrenia, it's actually on Dr. Amador's YouTube channel. But if you put Living with Schizophrenia Leap Institute, which is his institute that he started, right? Um it's produced by Jansen Pharmaceuticals, but Dr. Amador, who is also in it, put it on his website or on his YouTube.

SPEAKER_03 3:41

Okay, and you did that documentary after this low point, correct? Oh yeah. Okay, so let's talk about that turning point. That the the the hospital that your sister drove you, that was a real turning point for you. Can you tell us about so that turned your life around after you had some sort of so let's talk about uh you know going from the dark days into the days of uh awareness and change, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Well, um, this was at KU Med, which is a teaching hospital, and I think it was important for me to get out of my town because that was part of my paranoia, I thought the people in my town were spying on me, coming after me, trying to kill me, whatever. And so getting away in a different hospital environment was important. But I remember, you know, I'd been on Risperdal all through these years. February of 2007 was when I was hospitalized there. And I think a recent development was Risperdal Consta, which is now kind of an actual older drug. As you all know, different drugs work for different people. So what we don't think they don't work for this is just your story. This is just your story. Yeah, but what worked for me was this uh this injection they suggested, which was bi-monthly called Risperdal Consta. And when I was there, the resident um who was had been talking to me came into my room and said, We've been talking, and um, we want to ask if you would like to just be on a shot, just a shot, no pills, or I think they were gonna give me a two milligram with it of Risperdal or something. Can't remember exactly, but it was basically just being on the injection. And I thought, after all the pills I've been on, and you just want me to maybe on an injection, sure. I thought, sign me up for that, and so I don't know if I was that excited, but you know, I was I was a lot, uh it was a lot better than anyway. So he administered it, and I have taken that injection every two weeks since 2007, and I haven't missed a single injection, and because it it acts immediately, and um so all these years has been a process of healing. I've had a wonderful psychiatrist who recently retired. He was at KU Men and he was chair of, I think he was chair of the department, but I'm not totally sure. Okay, but um he had he was my doctor for 13 and a half years, and he was it makes me cry, he was the most wonderful, affirming, he reminded me of my grandpa. And um it was like sitting there talking to my grandpa about it, and um he didn't change anything for 13 years except for adding one milligram. That's all he did in 13 years. That was a big turning point when I I just thought I can manage this because I think so much of it, so much of what we go through when we have this illness is not only are we dealing with the illness, but we have to keep up with 50 million pills, you know, all these medications or and they cause weight gain. And my medication still causes a little weight gain, but you know, it causes like heart of dyskinesia, and you're moving, and you're and you've in and all these things, and it's so it's frustrating. So I think so. That was kind of the turning point then. And go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 7:17

Yeah, me I think Mimi wants to answer the question, but you're muted.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

There we go.

SPEAKER_03 7:20

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

My question is um, so after that turning point, as you began to rebuild your life, you talk about giving to others and you know, doing this documentary and things like that. How does it help you doing these things?

SPEAKER_01 7:36

Oh, well, it is very healing. When I started to have more insight into, and it's a daily journey of insight, it's not uh one, you know, I've seen the light and I, you know, but but it's just a daily thing. Um when I started having insight, I wanted to tell other people that they could have hope. And I I did that by um things like um uh there's a nonprofit in town, and um I started a gift card drive for them, and all my friends on Facebook gave like Walmart, you know, grocery store or Target or different gift cards. And that made me so happy to do something small like that, and it was practical, and I thought, you know, that's something that people with mental illness, it's so hard to understand those kinds of you know, like money and stuff, because if they have a gift card, ten dollars is on this, I hand it to them, they swipe it, and I thought that's easy, and and so that was one thing, and then just giving back like through the other thing through the documentary, I've um like I said, Dr. Amador was in it, and meeting him was amazing. Um we actually had a screening for reporters in Manhattan, New York, and um got to meet him, and he was just one of the kindest people, and um and and getting to know him and um I mean I don't know him very well, but just getting to be in the documentary and um my friends Ashley and Josh, who also experience schizophrenia, but they were in the documentary, and Ashley is very inspiring to me and started a blog, and um she gives to people all the time through speaking or writing, and I think that's kind of how I've also done it is through my speaking. I speak at the police department about once a year um for crisis intervention team training, and I've done that about eight years. And I speak at NAMI family to family once a year with my mom. And um that makes me feel like I'm saying I've been through something and I'm I'm not healed, I'm not recovered, but I'm working through it, and I have moments more than one moment of feeling good, you know, more than one moment of anyway. That's how those are some of the things that make me feel like it wasn't all in vain, all the struggles.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

I'm sure that hearing you talk, it must and hearing your story must be so meaningful for other people on the same journey. I mean, yeah, listening to you, all I want to do is get you in a room with my son.

SPEAKER_03 10:55

I want to be in the room with you and just give you a hug.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

That's how I'm I'm hoping after COVID, we all can meet in person and have conversations. Rebecca, one thing, I have a question coming up, but before I get to it, I agree with you about Dr. Amador. I got to serve with him.

SPEAKER_03 11:14

So if anybody listening, Dr. Amador uh wrote a book called I'm Not Sick, I don't need help, which he's a psychiatrist, and also his brother had schizophrenia. And so you can check that out as many editions have come out just in case you don't know who we're talking about. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

Yes, and so I got to serve with him when I was on the national NAMI board. We were on and his brother at that time was still living, and he was uh he had written the first, I think, um, direct the first version of his book, and then had a chance to give him input. And I know he takes input every time he does a new version, and now it's I mean, it was good to begin with, but it got better and better as he did people and what works and everything. So you mentioned you had this wonderful psychiatrist who's like a grandfather to you, and and he didn't really have to change much other than you started getting a shot rather than pills at one point. So, my first question is when he wasn't really changing anything, but you had this great relationship with him. About how long did you get to meet with him each time since he wasn't changing meds, but he still spent 15 minutes or more just talking and maintaining your relationship?

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Yes, my mom and I would make a day of it. We'd drive to Kansas City to KU Med. And um, I actually I know this is like unheard of, but I would see him about 45 minutes. Oh wow 30 to 45 minutes. Oh gosh, yeah. I know that's really old school, that's really unheard of, but that's he would he would see me about 30 to 45 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

What an incredible uh psychiatrist. My son's psychiatrist usually spends about five minutes with him.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

And so, you know, that's uh I'm just really thrilled. I wish every psychiatrist was old like you. I do too. Um, but it's so you were stable. But my question is, you also mentioned going on and off meds, and maybe that was only at the beginning, or have you had some times when you've been slipping, even when you're stable on your meds? And if you have, how can you tell when that's starting to happen?

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Well, with the injection, I I pretty much there are moments when I think to myself, I who would ask anybody to keep up with their own prescription, go to the pharmacy, pick up a refrigerated injection that has to be refrigerated, and you have to leave, you know, not leave it out for more than an hour when you pick it up and and take it and get poked every two weeks. Who the hell wants to do that? And I there have been many moments when I've had those thoughts. And if my mom, when my mom watches this, that may be news to her, but um it's probably probably not news to her. No, I've had those conversations with her, but um, you know, I think her too, by the way. Yeah, definitely, but I think I kind of problem solve, so to speak. Part of what I've gone through over these last 14 years of kind of maintaining things has been connections with people. And I had the same pharmacist for many years. I recently changed pharmacies, but I had the same pharmacist who knew me for many years. And one of the motivating things for my getting my prescription was this pharmacist, and he knew how many medication he knew every medication I'd ever been on, probably knew more about me than a lot of people, but just the connection with the pharmacy, even though that sounds silly, but just knowing they're kind of part of my treatment team, and then the person that was giving me the injection, chatting with her, she was a nurse, and and knowing something inside of me, even though I would have this kind of ongoing debate with myself, was they're asking a whole lot of me to do this, and I would think, but who's it for? It's not just for me, it's for my sister, it's for my mom, it's for my grandparents when they were alive, it's for my family and friends, you know, it's not it's not just for me, you know, and that was a real big turning point.

SPEAKER_03 15:58

So yeah, like you say, it's a it's a daily journey for you to stay aware and on top of everything you're feeling, and yeah, it is and and the doubts that creep in. And yeah, when the when the injection is starting to um do you find the intrusive thoughts get louder? Do you know, oh my god, I can't wait to have the injection again? Or is that when those anger starts? Like, what are they making me take these beds for? Is it is it more toward the end of that trajectory, or do you have it pretty time pretty well that the time release is well coordinated?

SPEAKER_01 16:36

Well, that's a good question because it does start to wear off after about a week and a couple days, or a week and three, three or four days. And I I start having times when the couch looks really good and in my mom's because I I spend time with my mom. I have my own apartment, but I can tell when it's wearing off because I want to sleep more, or I have lack of motivation, or I have intrusive thoughts, like I like to call them. But um, I have more thoughts of um more paranoia. And you want to know something? This is I don't share this with a lot of people, but the same types of thoughts haunt me when it starts wearing off. And it is, this is kind of funny, but it's that the CIA can read my mind, and my code name is Mother Bird, Mother Bird, and this has been happening for years. It's the same thing, Randy. Come in, mother bird. We can't get a reading on this, mother bird. What are you doing, mother bird? And I know, and I'm like, you stinking thoughts or voices, whatever, you think you can outsmart me? You think I'm gonna fall for this again? So I'm on my mom's couch and I'm having this whole debate in my mind with the mother bird. Oh my god. And so I tell my mom, mom, you know, here it's the same thing. It's like, can't we get more creative?

SPEAKER_02 18:07

I don't know. Creative. You know, my son says the very same thing when he is feeling delusional, and then he's better, and then he has a period where he's delusional again. The delusion is repetitive, or even if it's a continuing story, wherever he left off, it will pick up there, and then sometimes he gets further along in the story. But I wonder why that is, where it's repetitive like that.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

It's so weird. And you know, on the one hand, I could be really distressed by it, which I do, you know, but I know, I know. Oh, my shot's kind of wearing off. You know, time to get the shot pretty soon, but it's just my I have to tell you something. I had to, I also had my counselor retire two weeks ago, and I'd seen him for 14 years, and I just thought he was the greatest thing since macaroni and cheese or something. I don't know. He was just awesome. And he told me once, we didn't talk about all this a lot, but he said, paranoia is tricky and it's hard to turn off. And I thought, well, true. And he would always say things like that that helped me to have insight, but I'm I will always I will always think of things that he said to me that helped me to normalize. And also, I will say, this is kind of a little off the subject, but back when I was psychotic, I thought I was a prophet, which was part of my delusion. And um, like I said, I was real spiritual, and I I thought I was a prophet. And um I told my counselor who I referred to about that, and he did not say, No, Rebecca, you weren't a prophet. He just said something like when you have schizophrenia, maybe you're more in tune with your spirit and your spirituality than he made it, it was so sweet. It wasn't like you know, it wasn't like he was debating with me. And and so when I so I I don't know, that's kind of off the subject, but I will always remember him for that.

SPEAKER_02 20:31

That's beautiful, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:33

And you know, it's it seems like affirming. I I don't think that was off the subject at all because for you to share anything that a psychiatrist has done to help you, or what your mother has done to help you, or you know, any of these things are it's just so refreshing and eye-opening for me to have this conversation with you. Your story has been amazing, and you know, we talk about four pillars of recovery. And again, for me, this is my observation of what I think helps my son. But I need the same four things, and they are treatment, structure, purpose, and love. So I think we've spoken a great deal about treatment here, and certainly you can add anything you may want to, but I'd like to know, like for you, and well, the last one we'll talk about is love and community, because you've already mentioned a lot about your family support, your pharmacist, the person who gives you the injection. These are not mental illness needs, these are human needs. We all need purpose and we all need structure, and we all need treatment when we need it, and we all need love and community, maybe to varying degrees, each of us depending on introvert, extrovert, or whatever. But so for you, in terms of your paranoid schizophrenia, let's just talk about the second one. Structure. Does structure help you? And how does it help you? Do you find you're more comfortable and more productive? When you have a predictable structure to your life, is that of any help to you?

SPEAKER_01 22:05

Yes. Yes. Routine and structure is very important. Um how do you get it in your life? I mean, what well one of the things I do is I get up real early every morning. I get up 4 30, 5 o'clock in the morning and have a cup of coffee or two or three. But you know, and my coffee and my quiet time is my time to meditate. And that is so important to me. And if I miss that, I don't really have a good focus for my day, but something to focus on. And what I do in the mornings is have a I list three things that I'm grateful for. And I just I list I or more, and I just go over them one by one. And even if it's the sunrise or you know, or good weather or spring weather or a cup of coffee or my friends at the coffee shop or you know, whatever, I list those things. And then um one of the things I have been doing, you mentioned about your son and his job that with COVID. I had been going to school. And I had for many years gone off and on to school. And so I had after many years of not going to school, went back several years ago. And that was, um, I'm not taking any classes right now, but that was a big structure thing in my day, was my class. And I knew I would see the same people and see my friends at school, beyond campus, and my dad taught at the school at Washburn in Topeka. And that was that was a very healing thing for me, was get in my car and go to campus and go to my class. And I think so much of what I have gone through over the years is kind of this love-hate relationship with treatment plan, treatment teams, where I know I have a social worker, I have a psychiatrist, I have to get my shot, and that's become part of my routine, and that's become part of my what I do that I have learned to have gratitude for. And that has been a huge thing. And I'm not saying I'm grateful for it every time, but that's one of the things I'm really working on is to say, instead of saying, Boy, you know, nobody else has has to do all this stuff I do just to keep my brain going, and to see it as everybody has something they have to do, and to see it as a kind of a dance of connection. One of my favorite psychologists is Harriet Lerner, Dr. Harriet Lerner, and she actually worked at Mininger's, which you know, Miningers was in Topeka, and it was a famous hospital where people from all over the world came. And uh, Dr. Harriet Lerner was a psychologist. She wrote the dance of intimacy, the dance of anger, the dance series books. But she talks about in one of her books, the dance of connection. And I have seen my routine and my schedule of what I do during the day as connection, instead of saying I have to do this, see it as a connector, a connecting thing.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

This is such a good reinforcement to everything that we're told because I've been told so many times, you know, that that that's what my son needs in his life is a routine and things to do and connections with other people and a purpose. And it's one of the hardest things to create for somebody when they're not motivated or have the insight to know that that's what they need. But it's such a reinforcement that all the doctors and everybody who's telling us this, it's right, it is what a person who's dealing with this needs. It does help. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 26:19

Yeah. I'd have to say that I think for my son, especially recently, you know, he lost his structure. He was working full time, he was doing double shifts, and you know, he getting up and having a place to go and go to work was huge for him, as it is for all of us. And I'm one of the reasons I'm glad he's in a residence and not with me is they have structure. There's group at this time and there's group at that time, and at least, you know, so school can give structure, volunteer work can give structure, appointments with other people can have lunch to have lunch, can give structure, and you also impose your own structure on yourself, which is great. And I think the the last thing I want to all of us to talk about is more about community and love. But I do want to ask you, has COVID affected you and your recovery in the last year or so? Have you found it harder? I don't know, you haven't mentioned if you if you work or if you have a job or you know, I know you do a lot of work with with NAMI and so forth, but has COVID robbed you of your structure and how are you coping with that?

SPEAKER_01 27:23

Well, I I was I was going to school almost full, I was taking several classes, and when they went online, um I I just didn't feel like I could do it. And the other thing I was doing is I had just started, um, one of my classes required us to start a volunteer job as a project. And I was working at this clothing bank, as which is part of this nonprofit in here in the city where I live, and I loved that volunteer job, and I met all these wonderful people, and I did it every Thursday from 10 to 12, and sometimes I'd stay later, and they had to shut it down. And um the other thing that's happened is a lot of the people on my treatment team have retired. Um, some of the people that I rely on for different things have gone to other jobs. I also have not been seeing my sister as much. She lives in Virginia with her husband, and I will say she's a huge support for me. Um, and her husband, Don, is a wonderful support. But I don't know if you've heard of Marco Polo on the app on your phone, but um you guys should check out like the swimming, it's not like the swimming game. No, but it's it's these videos. You you you download the app, Marco Polo, and you can make a video of yourself right then and there. Push play, you make a video, you say whatever, you show whatever, and then your family member in Virginia, California, wherever, you can they can say, Oh, they just did a Marco Polo, and they can watch your video and then they can respond with a video. It can be one minute, five minutes, ten minutes. It's the most wonderful thing. Cool.

SPEAKER_03 29:16

You've taught us so much.

SPEAKER_02 29:19

I should learn that with my granddaughter, but I'm very bad at technology. Oh, you're learning, Mindy. You're learning. Look at you on Zoom now. Right, with Randy doing all the work, of course.

SPEAKER_03 29:34

So I think we've we've had uh this has been wonderful, like wonderful discussions, and clearly you've you've spoken about your family and your support all the way through. So I just want to wrap it up with each of us with messages. And uh, Rebecca, I would love for you to say if you have any messages for people with schizophrenia to their families and to practitioners. So I'll give you a second to think about it, but my message right now is just a message to you. I just want to thank you for just being you and and being so open and honest and funny and and and and willing to share your story with us. It's it's really been um a blessing to to talk to you tonight. I mean, we've had we had little conversations, but just to get it in context, I just think you're amazing and you're so important in this world. And I hope you keep doing what you're doing. That's you know, I'm gonna let you talk last, Rebecca. Mindy, anything you want?

SPEAKER_02 30:36

Well, I too, Rebecca, want to thank you for for being here. And I really do, you know, that's one thing I really miss during COVID. Uh, you mentioned the people retiring or your structure changing. Um, I don't have schizophrenia, and still I was upset this year when my doctor retired, who I'd had for years and years and years. You know, it's a kind of grief to lose to retirement. And it's also a kind of grief when we have COVID and we can't see people and we have to be on Zoom. And it's good for us for Mimi and Randy and I, because we're in different states, we would have to be Zooming no matter what. But occasionally, you know, you could get together with people at like a NAMI convention, or we could just all agree to fly into the very same place. And so I think it's uh you've had a lot of universal truths that you shared with us in addition to the nuances of all you have to go through having schizophrenia just to maintain your brain. So you've given us um given us a lot of insight and and I you've given me a lot of hope because um I just see you as a very healthy, intelligent, um, warm and and funny as frankly person, um, with such a great sense of humor. And as my son has been sober and healthy for you know almost a year and a half now, I'm seeing more and more of him coming out in those good qualities. So I want him to keep progressing and be like you. So thank you. Thank you. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

Also, something that you said that really resonated for me was when you said you had more than a moment of joy, like you have happiness and joy in your life. And you know, that's the thing that I think not only people who have schizophrenia struggle with, but their families, certainly their mothers. You know, I I write about this in my book that there was a point at which I just decided I've worked too hard and and given up so much to just give up on the idea of having joy in my life. And so we have a big family. And although my son has schizophrenia and he's not recovered like you are, you know, it's we're still in the trenches here, as we say. Um, we have a lot of joy. And I think that people hearing you and hearing your story will reinforce that and give hope for them also that there's happiness and joy in life. It's just different than we thought it was gonna be, but it's no less beautiful. Thank you. Yeah, I think you're right.

unknown 33:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:33

So, Rebecca, I'm gonna let you have the last word. If what would you most like to say to people who have schizophrenia or to their families, to practitioners? Um, you've been interviewed a lot. So, any final words that you'd like to?

SPEAKER_01 33:47

Um, I think what I say in the documentary is to know you're not alone. I think, especially with COVID, we've there's been so much isolation, and but a lot of times when you have a mental illness such as schizophrenia, there are a lot of secrets and families keep secrets or um shame. It's kind of like when you have a wound and it's festering and you can't touch it and it's it's hurting and you don't know how to heal that wound. But if you can just think of shining a light on that wound by talking about it, finding one person to talk about your feelings, whether it's opening up to some friend about, you know, last week I I just wanted to give up, or just opening up a little bit at a time, that's been so healing for me and kind of healed so much of kind of this shame and secrecy. And I think for families, it's the kind of thing where schizophrenia is something that is hard to understand. And I think we need to give each other grace. I think that's what I've learned is that if we can love the person at the grocery store, not love, but you know, be kind to the person at the grocery store bagging our groceries, can we be kind to ourselves and say, I may not understand why my son or my daughter is acting weird, but I'm gonna have grace with myself for just my feelings. And I'm gonna have grace with myself for having a person with schizophrenia. I'm gonna have grace with myself for what I said 10 years ago. I think grace, you know, we're so hard on ourselves. And I think if we can just have a little grace, we can go a long way.

SPEAKER_03 35:44

That is a perfect note on which to end this story. Rebecca, thank you again so much. And uh the next time, our next episode, we will be talking about the hot topic of marijuana and schizophrenia. And we're gearing up toward that, and there's many more stories to tell, and we never give up hope. So thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 36:08

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_03 36:11

Hey, thanks for joining us for this episode of Schizophrenia Three Moms in the Trenches with Randy K, Mindy Gryling, and Miriam Feldman. To get in touch with us or to learn more about our books, please visit our websites at MiriamHyfenfeldman.com, mindygryling.com, or randyk.com.